posted 10-26-07 11:08 PM my dream of building a particaptory society is based on grassroots organizing through volunteering. I have planned out how this new spiritual society could replace consumerism and capitalism. We wouldn't need money, private property, or representative politics. We could create a direct democracy using the internet and give communities the control over the land. Imagine a internet based democracy where everyone can deliver the next presidential speech. This new utopia would grow their own food in gardens. Remember God gave us a Garden in the begining. If we want to save the world we must perserve it. Capitalism seeks to exploit and profit of it and us. We are in desperate need now of a drastic driven harmonious intervention. Are you willing to save the world or stop mass extinction from occuring as it has unchecked. Remember that you must start low to climb a mountain. We must begin all over again in the garden.

your skepticism and cynicism are a result of being disenfrancised from the political system. Lets face it, only the elite can run for high office. Well dont you think a direct democracy could empower us and renew the creative spirit of the American people? Why do you think its ok to bash an alternative to capitalism and consumerism as if the worlds not being destroyed by blind arrogance and ignorance? A utopia could work and it has to work if we make a transparent government than all can equally particapate in. We have to get rid of private property so that the land can be optimally managed by consensus from those that live there. With this plan, is not a condition of slave wagery or the creation of false identities with consumer goods. Instead we would start a realtionship with the plant kingdom and animal kingdom by praying and loving our plants. Here is something we havent tried and it could systematically remove hatred and war from the forfront of society forever. why live in a system based on competition when we can actually cooperate and let love be the guiding force?

i have pointed out that the cause of our problems is this being a man made world. the solution is simple; end capitalism and consumerism and replace it with a particapatory society based on volunteerism. Begin a new relationship with nature that will teach us how emotionally intellengent she really is. Are we forgetting that god created the plant and animal kingdoms? nature is much more emotionally intelligent than we are. Nature isn't unconcious, its concious. Only by loving nature will we begin to see less mental health problems and less global warming. The clean technologies are already designed, it just takes money to spend us there. Wouldn't u rather get rid of money altogether, and as an empowered society, use volunteer groups to manufacture all the clean technology our society needs? With a cause as great as saving the world, millions will work hard to get us there. We are the generation that was born to solve these problems. The elite are hellbent on making things worse. So lets get rid of elite control, create a direct democracy and begin in the garden as Adam and Eve.

Sorry, I don't share your view because your view is flawed from the get go. Competition is a nature order of things. Second, my home is my home well as your home is yours. I rather live as a man than living in the woods as an animal.

The US system of government is the best in the world, direct democarcy will be similar to mob rule.

It is time for people to stop blaming Captialism and the rich. God bless people like Bill Gates for the wealth.

The final point I want make is this...your dreams of a utopia are errly similar to Communsim. The reason why things are not changing because people have not have the time nor the pratnice to run for office.




I have an better idea than ours it is not extermely radical.

u dont have to quote the whole post to make ur simple point. i see u as a typical cynic and as i said this is a result of begin disenfrancised from the political system. and no it would not be mob rule, because in my internet goverment, a think tank and an place where volunteer organization occurs are the critical elements. Ideas and inititatives are rated by the engaged citizens with smiles. the most encouraged ideas and initatives would be on top of the totum pole.

now can you think of a communist system that had a great democracy, or a communist system that's main goal wasnt to make money? no thats because it hasnt ever happened. my system is not based on money or private property much like that of the native americans, the tribe, the community rather, decides best how to manage all the land bioregionally taking advantage of all the best aspects natural in the landscape, and than working best to create a sustainable system with no waste.

dont u think consumerism based in capitalism is causing the destruction of the earth? what alternative would you propose that could create a drastic harmonious intervention?

people do want this alternative because its exciting and compelling to be and have a stake in your future. the political system wouldn't be mob rule because it would function at many levels and on a local level, things pertaining to land use would be under their direct control, just as you the private property owner make choices for yourself. I put my faith in community control based on the process of consensus built discussion. this is the future of communication systems and power relationships. you havent experienced it so you wouldn't know how effective it is. its nothing like mob rule. its the way the enlightend fathers created this great constitution and bill of rights.

This is my alternative.
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I ask you not to misjudge me by stating that I am cyincal because you do not know me. I owned cattle and land. My proverty should be my and my family's proverty not yours not to the community. What if someone visit your home and lives there without permission? Or what if I am invading your personal space. See my point?

The internet goverment does not work in the long run. What if there is a solor flare or a storm and a person can not vote?

The destruction of the Earth is not from Captialism, but the destruction of life on this planet is the morals of each man and woman. If a person opens up a business he or she should own that business not you, not society.

Blaming Captialism is nothing but a cheap shot, whynot focus your attention on those Captalist would is apart of the blame and those stooges they put in power.

you said that ending private property would not work because you need your own space. this is fine and can be dealt with by the community through the process of concensus. Sharing your land with the community takes a raising of conciousness. there is enough to go around if we share it. Also the Native Americans didnt have private property and they managed to do fine without it. So you need your own space. well if the land was optimally managed by the community, the people could live in higher concentration thus elevating the problem of over population, and this can be done with all the current technology and luxury comforts your use too. We could also build free centers where people can play, simply be, or create at will. Where in society do you see free centers for the people? They simply don't exist and theres no compelling or exciting free things to do? People are all about the business of profit. Consumerism is destroying the world. What would you have me do, become an observer and deny the feelings of sadness that i have inside? We could manufacture tents and sleeping bags for everyone that wants to sleep outside when the weather is ok, and thus live like the Native Americans in communites that are willing to have this. I dont think this is such a crazy idea as you. I think its crazy that you would isolate yourself in your power hungry homes and waste your only life on the pleasure and desires created out of materialism while suffering persists in the majority of the world.

Lavisod, You need to stop assumting who and what I am. I resent the fact you can call me crazy when you don't even know me. I live in a modest home, I live in a small town, and trying to work and gaining an educaton at the same time. I do not hate money, nor the rich. They have a purpose to be rich, I have a purpose to be in the postion I am in.
I have the right to live in house and work to gain the needed materials to survive on.

Second, I resent that you suggest I am someone who would favor suffering of the world.

Let me ask you a series of questions? Should the government of this nation takes over private property? How should the government do it? No matter how it is done, it goes against the bill of rights. My house is my house. Your house is yours. If Bill Gates or someone who is rich gives up his/her house to me or the community, then I nor the community deserves it because the original owner is the one who use his/her time, money, and sometimes sweat to get that proverty. You live in a house, an apartment, or some form of dwelling right? I guess it is obivous that you have access of the internet to sprew your ideas. Let me ask you this, what if some decides to over stay their welcome? What if someone or the communty decides to deny you access to the web.


"Consumerism is destroying the world. What would you have me do, become an observer and deny the feelings of sadness that i have inside".
How are consumers are destorying the world? The consumers are not the problem, the problem lies in the hearts of men.

Just because one company or one industrial does something bad that doesnt mean everyone else is. So stop with the wide brushing of people in this country who are land owners, owns a business, or buy goods.

You have stated that there are no free centers, that is a lie. There are parks, and youth centers which the communites are responsable for. The problem is mainly in the urban areas.

Give me the answer in real life terms, not something about the "process of concensus". Your society is not based on Freedom, it is based on controlling ownership and goods. My society would be the same as this one we are in , but without the greed, crime, and the hard headness of officals. My ideas would save this planet, if not make things better, not yours in which mob rules and the computer rules.


If you want to live in a tent, thats fine, but it is not fine to make people, yes MAKE PEOPLE to live like you.

In making people to live in tents and kicking people out of their homes/proverty then you are no better than some of these RICH CAPTIALIST who had torn down famers' houses and farm during the Great Depression.


After this I have nothing else to talk to you because your misjudgement of me personality and the misunderstanding of what freedom really means.

the world is being systematically destroyed but u resent me for shaking you in an effort to wake you up. i never said i would force ppl from their homes because of the end of private property. instead i would leave each community with the power to decide how best to organize themselves. If they want to build big homes for everybody and cut down the last remaing old growth trees, and than choose to live in a gated community, than by all means do it. but if the community decides to use the land to develop permaculture projects and sustainable living quarters that offer the wild a fair share of the planet that they also are entitled to, than there you go. i put my faith in the people to decide as a community how to best house, clothe, and feed its people.

you havent' found a single good idea in all the things i've said about creating a direct democracy, but i take it that your happy with a mass media that prepackages what canidates will be president. in like the last election, both canidates were members of skull and bones. oh ya our democracy works. your living in a dream world. representative democracy is out dated from the days of horse and buggy. well today, the advent of the internet, we can create a direct democracy and represent ourselves.

i'm advocating an alternative to capitalism too because i think its wrong to make people struggle to meet ends meat. just listen to this quote.
In conversations with god, god says "if everyone on the planet had their basic needs met-if the mass of people could live in dignity and escape the struggle of simple survival-would this not open the way for all of humankind to engage in more noble pursuits? Would individual greatness really be suppressed if individual survival were guaranteed?"

First of all, I state earlier that I will shut my mouth and never reply.

I have no need to be waken up, because I am already there. It is you who need to get REAL. Direct democracy will fail because there is no order or bylaws. You keep on sreaming the Internet, the Internet, Internet. The internet is run by computers right? Computer and phone lines runs on tall towers. What if a lighting bolt takes out the computers? What if a computer virus has been created?

Like it or not, people are going to struggle under your ideas, socialism, commeruinm, and capitalism. That is the fact of life. The Native Americans struggle as well as the white man. Get use to it,.

The problem is that you kept on blaming society and the system, those are not the problem. The problem is that some people are too greedly and have selfish intent. That is the problem, not captialism.

The United States is not pure capitalist society. You made another error, another assumption that I follow the mass media. You are making too many false assumptions. Making too many ssumptions makes one into an ###. I dont not follow any of the Presideintial candidates because they have no soultuons, I have the solutions.

My UNITMATE goal in life is to live at 1600 pennsylaina AVE or at the state department, because I know how to end most of these problems. To benfit society is to decrease the cost of living. To decrease the cost of living is to break up some of these companies. Paying off our debt, keep jobs here, serure the borbers, bring the troops home, and to outlaw companies that uses slave labor and harming the enivormant. I read your reply on the NEW SOCIETY part 2, why can't you reply on the whole thing.


Last point I want to make is that people who laugh at me are usually proven wrong. If I were you I would stop with the laughing because it is not getting you anywhere.

u say the people are to greedy and selfish, well were the native americans to greedy and selfish. NOO, its money that has caused this delema.

as for your new society arguments, i was glad to see that you have ideas but sorry to see that non of the presidential canidates swing for ya. personally i want ron paul for president and dennis kucinich for vice. pass it on. i only didnt replay also because i'm only managing my ideas that will save the world maybe post in about 20 other forums. i have to admit i cant remember any of your ideas because none of them were compelling or exciting to me. you cant ignore me forever lolololol stfu

BigJ..............lavisod is obviously a very young person with not enough life experience.

As they grow up...........gain the material posessions through the sweat of their brow (that they condem now) their ideas will change.

Regarding the "we are distroying the world campain" I have posted before that this will be a very likely candidate to bring about the one world government predicted in the Bible.

This person ideas would accelerate that evolution.


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