You contradict yourself when you admit that there was a lack of communication between the existing government Org.'s and then state that the existing ones were capable of communicating and managing things.
Do you remember how the existing ones didn't communicate and mismanaged things during and after Hurricane Katrina?
I agree with 60% of the viewpoints of Liberatarianism, 10% I can partly agree with and 30% of it's viewpoints I don't agree with.

"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism....The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is....Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals." (Ronald Reagan)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forthright You contradict yourself when you admit that there was a lack of communication between the existing government Org.'s and then state that the existing ones were capable of communicating and managing things.

I was trying out government logic trying to be funny... guess I should stop doing that, because I'm probably not as funny as I think I am. We aren't fixing the problem of not communicating by creating another department of government. We are just creating another branch of government for people to not communicate with and really we have the same problem.

Quote:

Do you remember how the existing ones didn't communicate and mismanaged things during and after Hurricane Katrina?

So is the solution is creating an entire new department of government built solely for the purpose of natural disaster? No... you focus on improving existing government resources like FEMA... my same qualm with the dept of homeland security.

I think the problem with Katrina in of itself wasn't really a government problem, but instead a problem with the way the message was carried out. Being a city under sea level... you get a lot of false threats like Hurricane Cindy earlier in the 2005 season. The media has a tendency to cry wolf, and as such people tune out threats thinking. “what is the worst that can happen”? The media as a whole should have made it known clearly how hard Katrina would hit, reiterate that the impacts would be more severe than those of Hurricane Cindy, and the devastation that would occur. Then again the attention span of most people is less than 45 seconds... so given that, FEMA should have also made more of an effort to evacuate the city and also let people know they should leave.

Quote:

I agree with 60% of the viewpoints of Liberatarianism, 10% I can partly agree with and 30% of it's viewpoints I don't agree with.

Now I'm curious. What don't you agree with?

Quote:

"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism....The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is....Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals." (Ronald Reagan)

I love that quote. Everytime I read it it, I ponder what we need government for.. and each time I see it my list shrinks.

__________________
If you have been voting for politicians who promise to give you goodies at someone else's expense, then you have no right to complain when they take your money and give it to someone else, including themselves. – Thomas Sowell

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. – Milton Friedman

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. – P.J. O'Rourke

Les Soeurs Fideles

It wasn't created because of Katrina but because of 911.

Wasn't the problem of the government of New Orleans and Louisiana? The media was constantly reporting about Katrina several days before it hit so it's ridiculous of you to state that the media wasn't being clear about it.
Or were you just being funny again? If you were I guess I should no longer take you seriously and thus not bother replying to you anymore.

That all drugs should be legalized and unregulated.
The pacifist/isolationist aspect of it.
Libertarians who were and still are Ron Paul fanatics.
Libertarians who believe in and promote the atheistic side of Objectivism.

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forthright It wasn't created because of Katrina but because of 911.

Well aware, thank you. I think you missed my analogy to the similarity between Katrina and 9/11…. Why would someone support the creation of DHL for a communication problem in regards to 9/11... But not advocate the creation of a separate FEMA-type department of government in regards to the communication problem of Katrina? Does that not seem self contradicting to you? By communication problem of Katrina I mean the local government thought the state was going to do something, and the state thought the federal government was going to do something, and the federal government thought the state was going to do something…

I’ll just go back to my original point…

The Department of Homeland Security is diverting funds from where it is needed, over a communication problem!! You asked to explain why I didn’t like the DHS, I did, and you completely side stepped my argument. How is the DHS not a waste of taxpayer resources? It was thrown together, inefficient, and its communicating a little too much... with the wrong people.

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Political Forum Link.
We had 844 hacks of the Department of Homeland Security between 2005 and 2006. Link is an excerpt from a speaker named James R. Langevin who spoke at a hearing addressing the Committee on Homeland Security. He paints a scary picture of things that the Department of Homeland Security is not doing to help prevent leaks. Some of which are common sense things... like not clearing cookies.

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Political Forum Link.
Hacking continues by the Chinese... 2007.

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Political Forum Link.
Phone systems breached by hacker... 2008.

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Political Forum Link.
Hacked again in 2009.

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Political Forum Link.
Hacked again... this time by North Korea ... July 4th of 2009.

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Political Forum Link.
And there is 18 month window for future hacking... and a brewing legal battle of the legality of Einstein, the new government platform that is supposed to strengthen internet security, and read everything inside the web.

That doesn’t make sense and I don’t think you read what I wrote.

Quote:

The media was constantly reporting about Katrina several days before it hit so it's ridiculous of you to state that the media wasn't being clear about it.

I believe the government rightly takes some of the blame for what happened, but I also think more blame should also be placed on the media for its inaccurate coverage… which is what I originally stated.

We agree with almost everything above, only I think some wars are worth fighting, so I do disagree with that arena of libertarian thought.

__________________
If you have been voting for politicians who promise to give you goodies at someone else's expense, then you have no right to complain when they take your money and give it to someone else, including themselves. – Thomas Sowell

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. – Milton Friedman

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. – P.J. O'Rourke

Les Soeurs Fideles

No you missed my analogy to your analogy. You advocating creating a separate type of FEMA Dept.and then being against the creation of H.S.because it would be another unnecessary Gov.Dept is two-faced of you. If you weren't two-faced about it then you wouldn't be advocating a FEMA type of Dept.either.
The only contradictions are some of your statements and me contradicting them. As to the rest of your statements, the State of Louisiana and The New Orleans Government were mostly at fault and a lot of the assistance from other states and the federal government was held back by them.
Perhaps you shouldn't go back to your original points.

Diverting from where to where? How do you know the funds aren't needed?
Communication problems needed to be fix and should continue to be fixed, and for you to imply that they shouldn't be is you being ridiculous again.
I answered you in post 9 and yes I sidestepped your useless statements about what you think the duties of Homeland Security are. If the USA has been protected in anyway since H.S.'s creation then I wouldn't call that a waste of money and for you to imply that it is, is ridiculous of you again.
So you think the federal government should expand and police the worldwide internet, that's very unLibertarian of you.

Here's what you stated...I think the problem with Katrina in of itself wasn't really a government problem...and my response to you questioned your ridiculous senseless statement that it wasn't the problem of the government of New Orleans and Louisiana.

Here's your statement....The media has a tendency to cry wolf, and as such people tune out threats thinking. “what is the worst that can happen”? The media as a whole should have made it known clearly how hard Katrina would hit, reiterate that the impacts would be more severe than those of Hurricane Cindy, and the devastation that would occur. Then again the attention span of most people is less than 45 seconds... so given that, FEMA should have also made more of an effort to evacuate the city and also let people know they should leave.

The media was crying wolf several days before it hit and the fact that some people were stupid enough to ignore the warnings is not the fault of the media. You then contradict yourself again or you were just being two faced when you stated...Then again the attention span of most people is less than 45 seconds. The government of New Orleans with the assistance of it's State government should have used the hundreds of available school buses in and near N.O.to evacuate all the people that were willing to leave.