The Economy and President Bush

Bush's policies are related to "trickle down economics". This position is that when the wealthy make money their profits and investments trickle down to the middle class. Bush missed a major point.

Outsourcings jobs and profits have become the norm for the wealthiest of the wealthy. Bush's friends in the financial community literally wrote the laws and created tax shelters if jobs were sent out of the country. Profits went up but the Treasury was left out of the equasion.

I find it difficult to believe that Bush43 had a MBA from Harvard. Either he cheated or bought it. Regardless, he didn't understand the most fundamental concepts of Econ 101. (When the US Treasury is cut out, money leaves our country and deficits skyrocket.)

I call this the red ink bubble. Our government and our economy is build on red ink and has no foundation for job creation or protection for future generations.

Bush43's last seven plus years have been a disaster. What is worst is that this Bush43 nightmare will last for generations. Doubling the national debt in seven years is obscene.

And finally, a 700 billion dollar bailout for Bush's weathy friends. This 700 billiion dollars will be added to the next President's budget. Bush43 gets by with another smoke screen and once again kicks the can down the street for someone else to clean up his mess.

The next President will have to raise taxes just to keep the American economy afloat. Then Bush43 and his newcons that got us into this economic mess will cry out somethings like "See they raised your taxes".

I am glad that I am vested. I've got mine. I feel sorry that Bush43 has screwed the next two generations.

Respectfully,

wdp

My gosh, what the heck are you vested in that you got yours? I can't picture it since all the stocks in the world wen to hell! It's amazing to me that President's get all the credit for screwing up the economy( when in fact they don't do crap to affect it) the Congress does. If we raise taxes, more companies will go abroad, we will lose jobs and tax income, as if taxes are the answer to all questions. We don't need more, we need less, and that will return more. If you want to question his IQ, which was rated above John Kerry, Then ask him for a head to head test. Just because anyone went to Harvard doesn't mean that they know anything about anything. If I owned a company that was getting their ##### taxed off in this country, I would find the nearest loophole as well, can you really blame them if they are trying to stay competitive? I can honestly say, no poor person has ever employed me, but I have been poor for most of my life. I worked hard and made my way into the class you despise so much with 80 hour weeks and I should be deprived of my hard work to give to you? What is the impetus to be more than a burger flipper if the Neuro-surgeon is going to take home the same pay? None! I would say that you realistically, don't know Econ 101 because there are so many false statements in your premise that it's pretty easy to shoot holes in them. Guess what! Bush isn't running again, it's time for you to leave your hatred of him behind and start your hatred of McCain! You can blame all of your life's perplexities on him instead of yourself, just like you have Bush. Forget the fact that you might have to take a little responsibility for your own actions! Give me a break, grow up and be an adult!

Antiochus, you are so clueless on the economy of a capitalist society, your words are ringing on deaf ears!

You are beginning to bore me Antiochus, come up with something we can debate in reality!

A) Why the hell are you posting three times? People have lives and sometimes like to do something else than debate with a guy projecting so hard.

B)Sorry to break your buble, but the largest expantion of the american spending is due to the cost of two pathetic wars. The reason why the country can follow is because of pathetic tax cuts. Both of those are linked to the even more pathetic Neo-Con concept of the economy.

I dont hate Bush, I just find that his ideas on a healthy economy are plain wrong. Its the same about McCain (who was my favorite Republican candidate by a long shot), but they have both been using tax cuts to get elected while they both need to spend more to keep their two wars floating.

MeterMaid, My position

"My gosh, what the heck are you vested in that you got yours? I can't picture it since all the stocks in the world wen to hell!"
Ans: Some of us have an education. I saw the stock market about to fall and put all my money into annunities. Guess I was lucky. Secondly, I retired from a job from the VA.

"It's amazing to me that President's get all the credit for screwing up the economy( when in fact they don't do crap to affect it) the Congress does."
Ans: It takes a minimum of two years after a given executive policy is executed for it to take affect in the marketplace. For six of the last eight years Bush43 had control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency. It would be naive for someone to believe that this recession is not directly assocaited with Bush43's economic policies.

"If we raise taxes, more companies will go abroad, we will lose jobs and tax income,"
Ans: Under Bush43's policies many of the most profitable corporations in the US (and the world) have opened headquarters in tax free havens. The laws were literally written by Wall Street and the financial institutions themselves. Money could be made in America and the profits bypassed the US Treasury and went to foreign nations. Even worse, many of these international corporations outsourced jobs from the US. Once again money was legally "laundried" with tax breaks and lower taxes to the Treasury (commonly called deficits). These new laws were written and executed on Bush43's watch.

"as if taxes are the answer to all questions."
Ans: During Bush43's administration the national debt has risen from $5.3 trillion dollars to $10.6 (and rising). Taxes might be the answer to all questions (i.e. is there life in outer space or will the Cubs win the World Series next year) but taxes are definately associated with the doubling of the national debt in 8 years.

"We don't need more, we need less, and that will return more."
Ans: This misrepresentation of the facts has been used by the far right for two decades. Facts have never backed up this position. Reagan's tax cuts cut revenues to $599 billion. Revenues did not return to that level in inflation-adjusted dollars until 1988 and only after Reagan signed three major tax hikes to increase refenues. Reagan ended with a deficit admnistration.
Bush41 cut taxes and the deficits rose to record levels.
Clinton raised taxes and his adminsitration ended with quarter trillion dollar surpluses.
Bush43's tax cuts have been a disaster. In Eight years his neocon tax cuts have doubled the deficit in 8 years that took the United States over 200 years to accumulate.

"If you want to question his IQ, which was rated above John Kerry,"
What has John Kerry's IQ got to do with deficit spending. IQ is irrevelent when someone makes mistakes and refuses to correct them. Then makes the same mistakes again. Bush43 might have a Harvard MBA but Bush43 is simply a dumb rich kid who has always got his way. Bush43 doesn't have common sense.

"Then ask him for a head to head test. Just because anyone went to Harvard doesn't mean that they know anything about anything."
Ans. I would love to but I don't know him. Perhaps you can ask Bush43 to have a head to head test; whatever that is.

"If I owned a company that was getting their ##### taxed off in this country, I would find the nearest loophole as well, can you really blame them if they are trying to stay competitive?"
Ans: I can tell by your correspondence you don't have to worry about running a company.

"I can honestly say, no poor person has ever employed me, but I have been poor for most of my life."
Ans: Poor is in the eye of the beholder. I assure you there are many more poor people today than there were before Bush43. As far as you being poor: I can't imagine why?

"I worked hard and made my way into the class you despise so much with 80 hour weeks and I should be deprived of my hard work to give to you?"
Ans: I don't want anything from you. I fought as an infantryman in Viet Nam, graduated from college, and retired from the VA as a computer specialist.

"What is the impetus to be more than a burger flipper if the Neuro-surgeon is going to take home the same pay?
Ans: What a dumb statement.

"None! I would say that you realistically, don't know Econ 101 because there are so many false statements in your premise that it's pretty easy to shoot holes in them."
Ans: I hope that I have put that nonsense to rest. You need to read more and talk less.

"Guess what! Bush isn't running again, it's time for you to leave your hatred of him behind and start your hatred of McCain!"
Ans: I don't hate Bush43. I hate what he has done to our country. We have gone from the richest, most respected nation in the world to a debtor nation that is feared. We now accept torture, refused to acknowledge the Gevena convention and invade nations for their assets. History will not speak well of Bush43.

"You can blame all of your life's perplexities on him instead of yourself, just like you have Bush."
Ans: Honey, you don't understand. I live in a half million dollar home (11 acres) that I build myself. I have a guaranteed income for life more than you make or will make. You need to read more and talk less.

"Forget the fact that you might have to take a little responsibility for your own actions!"
Ans: I did and I am enjoying the benefits of my work.

"Give me a break, grow up and be an adult!"
Ans: Stay in school and show this e-mail to your home room teacher.

Respectfully,

wdp

ps. McCain isn't going to win

wdp, You're just looking to get attacked aren't you, you naive little lib. I guess you've got the answers to it all don't you? You could never be wrong and never be misunderestimated in your naivete' I'll back up all the B.S. You want to state. Many of each of our views can be misconstrued and I was being nice to you in the last one.
Damn, you put your stock into annuities, I put mine into precious metals and doubled, stoked the energy market until August and quadrupled. I was just checking the I got mine thing, since that is supposed to be a capitalist thing, not socialist. I guess I'm not educated, what, how the hell would you know what my education is?
It might be naive unless you actually knew the names of all the Dems that have been at the head of driving Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, etc. into the ground, but then again, it's been a socialist goal to drive the economy down from within to begin with hasn't it? I've never said I love Bush, he isn't a conservative and his supposed reaching across the aisle is what has screwed him up the most.
Prove to me where this money was legally laundried! You are absolutely right when you say corporations go to tax free havens to make some money, if the taxes were lower here, the taxes would be paid with the company staying here, as well as all the income taxes from the employees.
Decreasing taxes increased revenue to the IRS, facts are facts. It was proven true during Reagan's years as well.
Taxes are definitely not associated with doubling the national debt, war and lunatics in congress are. Have we forgotten the 1 trillion in the last week alone?
The next statement, I don't even know how to respond to except for the neolib idea! Adjusted for and age appropriate, they have not. Clinton's packages were all because of Republican's who hadn't yet grown too used to power and throwing their weight around. It was a good thing they were voted out as acting like Democrats.
It's funny how all you know-it-alls like to call him dumb. But I guess that point had to do with you wanting to elect someone dumber! He isn't dumb, he's just insane! Got you on that one, his pandering to the left has gotten him nothing but a lot of pork and greed. His defense of the country can't even be questioned realistically since we haven't been attacked again.
Darn, Genius, you're right again, I don't run a small company but instead a division of a large company. It hurts me so much when you would say it's no wonder I don't run a company. BTW I'm not poor now, I grew up poor and know what it takes to fight for everything you have each and every day. Are you saying the poor suck and deserve to be on government mandated paydays?
I salute your service, graduation and work. But then again, does that make you better or more knowledgeable than me? We definitely have differences of opinion and think we are both right!
Damn, maybe I should read more and talk less, because you don't like it when I express a different view.
Umm... since when have we been respected? Are you saying you wouldn't waterboard a terrorist to protect your family? In a lot of this politically correct society nowadays spanking your child would be considered terrorism, is it? I don't think so. The Geneva convention applies to uniformed combatants of a defined enemy. Do these terrorists follow any Geneva conventions?
I'm not your honey and I don't care what you make or what you have. But suffice it to say from your statement, I had that net worth a quarter of a century ago, I have a new one worth twice that, I built 3 years ago, why are we in a pissing contest over that?. Again, a typical lib response wanting people to talk less and read more lib crap.
I also enjoy the fruits of my labor, thank you very much!
I'd love to show this to my home-room teacher, alas she has been passed away for a couple of decades now but she would have smacked your face for the facetious statements in it.
PS. We'll see how the lib media has it wrong on election day. If we get Barack, I'll fight the Carter administration again and survive just fine.

Blah, Blah Blah, Antiochus and wdp, What the hell have you done to invigorate any economy?

You are full of crap wdp and you know it, make a point realistically and I will deflower you, , or maybe support reality just like a virgin, damn that sounds like an Obamism.

Damn, you sure want the Hitler mode to follow you don't you. Sad thing is, there are so many screwed up people it coud happen!

I'm sure feeling pretty good right now with my daily excercise, and extras to maintain my body, what has happened in the idiot world?

Damn, again, I guess this means you don't know dick!

Metermaid,

I was just answering your post. I took it sentence by sentence and proved my points. Your babbling, half truths and misinformation do nothing to prove your positions.

First, start with this rhetoric about cutting taxes increases revenues. That nonsense has been stated by water carriers for decades. It has never increased revenues and never will.

You need to read more and get your facts straight.

Bush43 is the one that is nationalizing banks and financial institutions.

Honey, I am sorry but you don't have a clue to what you are talking about.

Remember what the nice doctor said would happen if you didn't take your meds.

respectfully,

wdp

Maby you need to blog with others who don't use facts to prove their case. You simply don't have the chips upstairs to debate me.

At least you now realize that your neoconservative views are nonsense.

Thanks.

wdp

Umm, do you think you are scaring me? I don't realize your nonsense and completely refudiate it! When I have time, (after actually working) I will respond!

WDP, Do you have common sense, and/or if you do, do use a token of it? During the Reagan years the top tax rate was cut from 70% to 28% and the revenue surged by more than 58%. That is a stone cold fact 1983-1989. Do you really think we need to tax more on things that are wasted by the congress on taxes collected? Of course revenues would be increased by bringing businesses back, anyone with a notebook would figure that out! My facts are straight and I'm sorry you've become a socialist. Maybe if we still have a country, your children will forgive you. Why do you keep pleading for me to read socialist crap? I won't and I read way more than the average person on a daily basis anyway. Is that supposed to change my core values? Reading bullsquat? I'm not a fan of 43, he's not a Conservative, he's not the doer, he's the helper with all of the socialist Dems and it's appalling! I ought to now be going on vacation and knock on anyone's door and say I'm sleeping here because the Government owns you! There is no reason the market shouldn't have been left to correct itself! You've seen the impact, nothing! I'm still not your honey and I'm wondering about the meds you are taking? Please mister wdp, I am up to your paygrade!

Prove me wrong on anything wdp!

Your facts are wrong. You need to read more and start using history as your baseline.

Cutting taxes has never, I say again never, increased tax revenues for the Treasury.

I don't know if you are dumb or take your information from the water carriers. Regardless, answering your opinions is like talking to a door.

When you start using facts in lieu of this nonsense I will start debating you on an intelligential level. Until then please start reading up on your facts.

You should have stayed in school.

Respectfully,

wdp

yo yo,

The US economy was in a recession left by Carter 77-80.

Reagan cut taxes in 81 to stimulate economic growth. After the tax cut (in 81) the 1981 tax revenues dropped to $599 billion. Revenues did not return to pre-tax cut revenues until 1988. By then Reagan had signed into law three major tax hikes to increase revenues. The right wing media continued to spew this nonsense until the ignorant believed it. Gobbels would be proud.

Bush41 tried the same economic logic.

Bush43 tried the same economic logic.

These three have created 80% of the national debt we enjoy to day.

This is an example of the intelligent leading the ingorant.

wdp

That isn't true. It is now believed that the economy was beginning to slow down at the end of Clinton's presidency, and a the beginnings of a recession were developing. When 9/11 happened, one of the reasons it struck the economy so hard is because we were beginning to slip into an economic downturn. Also, part of the reason Clinton's presidency was so sucessful was part in the fact that the internet increased productivity in businesses by an amount that is hard to categorize. When there is that much of an increase in productivity, products become cheaper so more consumers will buy. By the end of his presidency there were the dot com busts which explains why the economic downturns took root at the end of Clinton's presidency. Clinton did know his economic policy, but his economic sucess was probably more so attributed to his luck of having his presidency during the rush of internet productivity.

Since the economy took such a downturn after 9/11 Bush used tax cuts and massive government spending to try to turn around the economic downturn. To a point, it DID work in the short run. It kept the US from sliding into a depression following 9/11. I think Bush in part approved so many Bills in Congress despite criticism because he was advised very poorly that he was doing his part to keep America from going into a depression. I think a few months after massive spending kept the US out of a recession we should have begun to try and curtail spending habits of our government, if not begin to pay back the deficit immediately.

I think the failure of the government to curtail spending or to start to payback the deficit IS directly responsible for the recession the US is going into now. I think the failure of the Republican party to constrain massive spending IS what lost this presidential election, and if they had constrained excessive spending the economy would be out of a recession and the economy would look good to the public and perhaps we would have re-elected a Republican Congress (instead of replacing it with a Democratic majority twice during Bush's presidency) and President.

If Obama enacts his policies without any revisions during his presidency I really fear for the outlook of the US economy. I don't think tax cuts are a good idea regardless of what class of people it goes to because tax cuts are short term answers and only add to the deficit that I believe is causing the actual problem. Tax cuts are only a short term answer for our recession (it could also be arguable that tax cuts got us INTO a recession) and band aids aren't going to fix our economy. Tax cuts affecting the middle class while the so called "rich" are taxed doesn't sound good to me either. Any good done by increasing taxes will be offset by the tax cuts that will be experienced by the middle class.

Will it increase economic growth? Maybe, because it could cause people to believe that this policy is actually helping the economy so they go out and spend. So basically Obama is relying on a self fulfilling prophecy: that if Americans believe the economy is doing better, they will spend, so the economy will do better. Here is the catch; will Americans believe the economy is better under Obama?

I guess only time will tell. We'll have to wait and see after the honeymoon period of his presidency is over though. Generally changes in presidency are marked by initial economic growth. After the initial growth wears out (after the first 6 months to year of Obama's presidency) we can begin to look and see if economic growth slows or continues to increase. I hope America buys into his policies...